How to Make 7 Figure With an eCommerce Website

In this interview I ask Ezra how to build a thriving eCommerce business. Ezra reveals…

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Joey Bushnell: Hey guys, this is Joey Bushnell, welcome to this call. I’ve got a fantastic guest on the line today, his name is Ezra Firestone and he is an expert when it comes to eCommerce websites. Ezra thank you so much for being with me today.

Ezra Firestone: Hey thanks Joey I appreciated it, and I’m happy to be here.

Joey Bushnell: Ezra could you just let us now a little bit about yourself and how you got started with eCommerce websites? I know you are very successful at eCommerce now, so how did that start and how did you get to the point where you are at now?

Ezra Firestone: Sure, so I got started online about 9 years ago now. I started as an SEO doing search engine optimization. I was actually playing poker for a living in New York as an 18 year old, at these underground clubs, you know these mafia owned poker clubs. It was a really degenerative lifestyle you stay up all night, you sleep all day, you’re only ever hanging out with men it was just terrible.

But a friend of mine was making a living online teaching people how to become a life coach. He was before the life coach boom took off, he was in that market, he was a professional certified coach, and he was showing other people about this new field of coaching before coaching really exploded. He was generating his leads online through search engine optimization. He worked from his laptop and he had this lifestyle that looked really attractive to me.

So I said “Hey man, let’s do a trade. I’ll teach you how to play poker and you teach me what you’re doing on the internet. He gave me some DVD’s and I learned search engine optimization. I kind of just saw this opportunity, I saw this field, I saw this thing was emerging – “the internet” and all these cool things people were doing I was like “you know what, that’s for me I’m going to get into that”.

So I just kind of learned anything I possibly could, I found every resource online, I was a part of all the forums and I really learned traffic. I learned how to buy traffic, I learned how to get traffic through search engine optimization. I ended up taking over his business and doing the marketing for it and we had a really successful information marketing company for many many years. We did all the big launches and all that stuff and it was great.

So I sort of cut my teeth on that and once you learn how to get traffic the next step is you’ve got to learn how to convert that traffic into buyers. So you’ve got to get visibility for whatever your products and services are. Then once you have visibility from people who are interested in your stuff you’ve got to get them to take you up on the offers you make. That’s when you get into things like landing pages psychology and conversion and all this different stuff.

So I kind of nerded out and I didn’t sleep for years because I was working full time, I quit the poker job and I picked up a job at a yoga studio. I was working full time at the yoga studio and I was doing marketing at night, I was kind of moonlighting it. We ended up doing really, really well with that information company so I let go of the yoga gig. Once I figured out how to get traffic and get that traffic to convert, once I understood those things what I realized was I was doing consulting for local businesses and I was kind of using this in a bunch of different areas. I realized I was best off using those skills for myself.

I started having a look around, and I’ve been doing info marketing for a long time and what I realized was that the highest leveraged use of my traffic and conversion skills were in eCommerce or selling physical products, and that’s because when you look at the per visit value that a physical product eCommerce website has it’s like a $1 to $2 to $3 per visit most of the time. And on all of our info businesses and info sites, blogs and things like that are 1cent, 2cents, 5 cents, 10cents, it’s a much less valuable asset basically.

I realized this and the other thing was that we were spending so much time convincing people to buy our stuff and that they needed this information we had. We also had the problem of consumption, once people bought our info products it was hard to get them to consume them.

I’m not bashing info products I still retail info products, I love the info products space, I think it’s a fantastic business model. I think that it’s part of the game that sometimes when you sell info products to people who buy them, don’t actually use them right away or maybe never use them at all but I don’t think that’s bad, I don’t think that’s wrong. I think – hey they’ll use them at some point or makes them feel good to buy them or whatever. But I came to the decision that sending someone a physical product, they were looking for something, I had it for sale, they bought it, I didn’t really have to convince them, they were already looking for it. It was just a really smooth, easy and clean business model and so I went for it full force.

Joey Bushnell: So you said that you started with info products and a lot of IM gurus talk about info products and how easy it is to create a product or get started by making an info product. You don’t see too many people talking about starting an eCommerce business, at least as a newbie Ezra, is what I’ve found. Which is really interesting because I agree with what you’re saying that people probably want physical things rather than information a lot of the time. People want information but there’s lots of free information on the web anyway.

So I like what you said earlier about the average transaction value for eCommerce is higher that’s really interesting to me. So are there any other reasons why eCommerce possibly trumps info products?

Ezra Firestone: Well I would say it’s different strokes for different folks. It depends on the type of business you want to run and what you’re most comfortable doing. For me I like eCommerce, I enjoy having my eCommerce businesses, I like having info product businesses as well.

I think that one thing is for sure that an eCommerce business is easier to sell. It’s much easier to sell than an info product business because most of the time with an info product there is some specific entity attached to it. There’s some person, there is some expert, it’s harder to sell that than it is to sell an eCommerce website where what you’ve got is a platform, a line of products, a relationship with a supplier and an advertising account. It’s just so easy to liquidate an eCommerce store so it’s a more valuable asset in my opinion.

I think that an eCommerce business has more moving parts to it. The cool thing about eCommerce is that because it has more moving parts you have less smart marketers in the eCommerce space. It’s easier to throw up an eBook and put up a squeeze page and run some traffic to that. There’s more information, there’s more training, there’s more people doing this information marketing because it was the thing that everyone was teaching and so there’s less folks out there who were doing eCommerce.

A lot of the guys in my mastermind and brilliant people who are great at SEO or great at pay-per-click or brilliant marketers I asked them “Hey, how come you’re not doing eCommerce, why aren’t you using this to retail physical products as well?” and they’re like “Oh, it’s too much work”. And so people have this idea that eCommerce is so hard, so difficult or so much work and that’s because it’s a real business.

You’ve got to have customer service people, you’ve got to have a phone number, you’ve got to have a relationship with a supplier, you’ve got to have a real merchant account you’ve got to have all these things but it’s really not that difficult. It’s no more difficult than setting up an info product business, honestly, but there’s less people who understand the process and so we have less competition which I think is cool.

Joey Bushnell: That’s very cool, and I think also, Ezra, one thing that is attractive about starting an information product business is that there is very little capital needed you just need a microphone or a camera and you can record and you can make an info product which is great. So there’s kind of this stigma that with an eCommerce website you need to buy stock and you probably need lots of money to get it started. Is that true or is that not really the case?

Ezra Firestone: Well there are multiple eCommerce business models and the one that most people are going to start with is drop shipping. Drop shipping is where you’ve got a manufacturer or a supplier who has a line of products, let’s say they’ve got Halloween costumes as an example.

You go to them and you say “Hey I’d like to retail these products on my website on the internet” and they say “OK, here’s a list of our products, here’s all the product images and here’s how much we are going to charge you per product.” They give you a list of them and they give you all these products and then you know what the price of that product is.

Let’s say it’s $50 for an Elvis costume, so you take all those products and you put them up on your store and you just double the price. That’s a pretty good rule of thumb you just double the wholesale cost. You don’t actually buy the product, you don’t warehouse it, you don’t inventory it, you don’t buy it upfront. Only when someone comes to your website and buys that Elvis costume for $100 do you then email the supplier and say “Please ship this costume to this person and charge me the $50.” So you make your $50 but only after you’ve been paid, so you never pay money out before you get money in, in a drop ship eCommerce business which is what I love about it.

Any business is going to have an upfront cost. You’ve got to build out your platform which is easier to do these days than it was when I started. You’ve got to have a logo created, you’ve got to set up an advertising account and run adwords. But the cool thing about eCommerce is it doesn’t matter what your budget is. If your budget is $10 a day on advertising you can run $10 a day worth of advertising to your eCommerce website and you will find keywords that convert for you where you will be able to make sales and have a business that you’re getting started.

I think that any business requires some amount of upfront capital. You can get started in an eCommerce business or an info product business and you’re probably going to spend $1,000 all said and done by the time you’ve built out your platform, had your logos created and set everything up. You’re probably going to spend that same amount doing an info product business. But the hard costs upfront are not really that great.

You’re going to pay a monthly fee for your platform, you’re going to pay a monthly fee for your phone number. It’s about $10 if you use ringcentral.com. You’re going to pay to have some images created upfront, you’re going to pay to have some content written. So there are costs upfront but they are not astronomical.

Joey Bushnell: Sure, and so thanks to drop shipping it changes the game. It makes it so that the costs are right down, like you’ve said it’s not astronomical. So where do you find drop shipping companies? Is there a big famous giant on the web, like Amazon for example, when it comes to drop shipping or are these smaller companies that we need to go looking for?

Ezra Firestone: Yeah they’re smaller companies. What’s going on now is that pretty much every manufacturer is willing to drop ship because they need other outlets of retailing their products. Manufacturers used to be retailing just to wholesalers who then retail to brick and mortar stores and online retailers. These days you can skip past the wholesalers and go straight to the manufacturer of your product and request a drop ship relationship.

Now the question before you say “How do you find suppliers?” is “How do you find a market to go into?”. What markets are good markets to go into? Then once you find a market, what’s the criteria that says whether or not that’s a good market? Those are the questions you want to ask yourself.

Some of the ways I like to look for markets is I like niches of niches, so you’ve got dog supplies as a niche. Well, dog beds is a niche within that niche. It’s a sub category of a bigger niche. If you look at Amazon and Ebay you can look at their category structure and find out what these bigger categories are and then find little sub categories within those.

Those little sub categories tend to be really good niches. Enthusiasts and hobbyists, people who are into model train sets or super into paint modeling or golf. These people who are just crazy about stuff those are really good markets. I’ve got a guy in my mastermind group who only does hobby stores. He’s got 3 main stores right now and he’s sold 13 in the past few years. So he is killing it in the enthusiast and hobby space.

Embarrassing and weird products. Pubic hair shavers! Things people don’t want to go to the store and look someone in the eye while their buying it, are fantastic markets because people want to buy them online.

Internetretailer.com puts out a guide called “The top 500 guide” and they also put out the second 500, so it’s the top 1,000 eCommerce websites and markets in the north American market. It will tell you what markets are on the rise, what markets are on the decline, what websites are doing really well and so that’s a really good way to find out popular markets.

Another one is to look for the top designers on each shopping cart platform. We’ve got 25 shopping cart platforms to choose from you’ve got; volusion, magento, shopify, bigcommerce, yahoostores, 3d cart, oscommerce and shopsite you have all these different ones as an option to use. Each one of those has developers on it.

It has people who do development and design for those platforms. On their websites they often have case studies and testimonials of people who they’ve worked with. You know that if someone can afford to have their site redesigned by the top designer on that platform, then their going to be in a good market. So you can get market ideas that way, there is no shortage of market ideas.

Joey Bushnell: OK, so once we’ve decided what market we want to go into then we find the drop shipper?

Ezra Firestone: Well you find the brand and the brands of products that are being retailed in that space. You go and look up the actual manufacturers branded website and you get in contact with them and ask them about setting up a drop ship relationship.

Joey Bushnell: So would you send them an email or give them a call? How would you typically do that?

Ezra Firestone: I like to try to get them on the phone and say “Hey, my name is Ezra. I’m the buyer from my company, I would love to add your line of products to our store. We’d like to start out with a drop ship relationship and if things go well move in to a wholesale relationship.”

Because it’s true. If things go well in your drop ship store eventually you are going to want to buy in bulk to get a better margin. So I like to give them a call and if I can’t get a hold of them I’ll send them an email. Generally they’re not hard to get hold of.

Joey Bushnell: Do they expect calls like this? Is it quite an easy thing to get set up? Are they familiar with this process?

Ezra Firestone: I’d say about 50% of the time they’ve got a drop ship program already set up. So half the time you’re in and the other half of the time if they don’t have one or maybe their not taking on new people, you can get on the waiting list or try to convince them. Or they tell you “go to this wholesaler who we give our product to” and you can set up drop shipping with them.

Joey Bushnell: OK so we’ve got the market, we’ve found the drop shipper. Now we obviously need to have a platform to sell this from…

Ezra Firestone: Let’s talk about a few things before we get to there, just a couple of things. I’ve got a 15 point criteria checklist that’s too long to go through but there’s things you need to figure out before you decide you’re going to retail these products.

For example what’s the average order value? If the average order value of your product is under $75 you probably don’t want to be in that market because a standard drop ship margin is 20-30%. So if you’re selling a $50 product and you’re only making 20% profit, you’re only making $10. You’re not making very much money, you need your average order value. This is not an average product price, it’s average order value. That means, what if you’re selling a product that has a bunch of accessories to it? An iPhone or whatever it is, the product itself doesn’t have to cost $75 but the average order value on your store has got to be over $75 because you need to be making $20-$25 profit on each order or you’re not going to afford to run the store and run advertising.

So I like to have my average order value above $75 and under $300. Once you start selling average order values of over $300 you’ve got much more customer service, people want to talk to you, it’s not as easy. People don’t just pull out their card and want to buy it they want to get in touch with you first.

You want to make sure that your market lends itself to return customers. I’ve got markets like bar stools where they buy those things once. They don’t come back and buy them again. Whereas if you’re selling gift baskets you can sell to that customer every single season and holiday.

You want to make sure it lends itself to multiple item orders, bar stools does that. Nobody buys one bar stool, they buy 4 or 5. There is a lot of different criteria you want to go through but those are some main ones to think about.

Joey Bushnell: Awesome, thank you Ezra. So once we’ve done those things and we are happy with what we have chosen we obviously need a platform to sell this from. So what options do we have for building an eCommerce website?

Ezra Firestone: So we live in a day and age where we’ve got a million options, it wasn’t always this way. When we started out there was Yahoo store and a couple of others, there weren’t very many options. Now you’ve got so many of these plug and play carts. You’ve got Shopify, Volusion and Bigcommerce are the big 3 plug and play right now that everyone is using.

I like Bigcommerce for people who are just getting started because of it’s ease of use and how easy it plugs into other platforms, apps and 3rd party developer apps. People like live chat and abandoned cart emails that plug right into it really easily. It also has the best customer service. You can’t get Yahoo on the phone for the life of you. I’ve got Yahoo stores and their customer service is difficult to get help from because their on RTML which is this proprietary language that they built the platform on. But Bigcommerce is an HTML platform so it’s easy to manipulate it and you can get on the phone with these guys and they will help you and they care about you and they’re just great I love those guys. So I think Bigcommerce is probably your best bet if you’re just getting started as far as a platform goes.

Joey Bushnell: One platform in particular I wanted to ask you about, Ezra, was WordPress. I personally love using WordPress. So my first thought, is there a way to build an eCommerce website using WordPress?

Ezra Firestone: Yeah, there’s a bunch of WordPress plugin themes for eCommerce websites like Woo commerce. I am against WordPress as an eCommerce platform. I feel like eCommerce platforms were built for eCommerce. They are product management systems, they were built specifically for the purpose of eCommerce websites and they do all these things that eCommerce websites need right out of the box.

It doesn’t makes sense to take a platform that wasn’t built for eCommerce and try to plug a theme on top of it and use it as your eCommerce database. Everyone I know with a WordPress eCommerce website, it’s kind of funky and is all messed up half the time. I don’t actually use WordPress for my eCommerce stores so I don’t really have practical experience with it. I just think it’s a bad idea given the platform was not designed to be an eCommerce platform. We have these platforms that people spent millions of dollars building specifically for the purpose of being an eCommerce platform and I feel like why would you not take advantage of that?

Joey Bushnell: Sure, the reason why I love it is because the types of sites I make are blogging sites, information type sites. Is there a combination of the two? For example sites like Bigcommerce and those types of platforms do they have a blogging aspect? If anyone wants to mix a content based site with an eCommerce website, is that possible or are we talking about two different things?

Ezra Firestone: No, I think that every single eCommerce website that exists on the planet right now should absolutely have a blog and at least a piece of weekly educational, value adding, community engaging content. I think that if you’ve got an eCommerce website that has five skews, that you don’t have to manage a bunch of products then you can build your site out on WordPress and just link over to a shopping cart because it’s not a traditional multi item eCommerce website.

Every single platform out there has a way to plug a WordPress blog to it and every eCommerce website should absolutely have a blog and be creating content and engaging their community. But from an eCommerce stand point, from what you’re doing, how you manage your products, how you edit all your products, add products and how you put in the information to go Google shopping, I think when you are doing traditional eCommerce you need an eCommerce platform. You should absolutely plug in a blog to it and have a blog for your store.

I think WordPress is for sure the best platform for information sites and blogging sites because they are just so easy and there’s so many plug-ins, so yes I’m a big fan of WordPress myself but not for a traditional eCommerce store.

Joey Bushnell: So what essential features and functions does an eCommerce website need?

Ezra Firestone: There are some basic things like site search, frequently asked questions, shipping info pages, multiple payment options and you’re probably going to have over 70 skews on your site. You’ve got your home page. You’ve got your section pages which are the pages that house the products, so if you are selling gift baskets, you then have chocolate gift baskets right? Then that’s got a bunch of products on it, then you have your product pages. Home page, section pages, product pages.

You then have your shopping cart. When they click “add to cart” they get taken into the shopping cart pages. You then have your more information pages which include your info pages, your contact us pages, privacy policy and then you’ve got your blog. You really only have those 6 types of pages on an eCommerce website for the most part. You might have pay-per-click landing pages and other stuff like that, but for the most part you just need a left navigation and pictures of your products.

There’s all kinds of things we can do for conversion, we’ll talk about that in just a second but really all you need is a picture, a description, an add to cart button, some way for people to navigate and you’re up and running. I know many people with ugly, busted, terrible looking eCommerce websites but they have those things and they’re doing seven figures.

Joey Bushnell: So let’s talk about that Ezra, how do we maximize conversions on the site?

Ezra Firestone: eCommerce is all about flow. So people land for the most part, on your home pages or your section pages because a lot of times that’s what people are optimizing for and running traffic to. So the question is how do you get people from the section page, to the product page, to the cart, to the checkout? It’s all about flow.

Every single page has its own list of optimization strategies that you use to get people from that page to the next page. The goal with eCommerce websites is; always to get people through your goal flow, to get people through your funnel.

There are some site wide things that you want on your eCommerce website. The header is one of the most important parts of your eCommerce store so in your header you want a contact us, you want your security, you want some kind of an offer, discount or coupon. You want your more information page links. You want a little link to your shopping cart that show what’s in the cart. You want a live chat button.

You want everything to be in its own foveal view. If you look at zappos or amazon, you’ll notice that everything in their header is in its own little box, you can focus just on that because your eye only sees one part of the page at a time. So if you just look at zappos, they’ve done their header really well and look at all the little things they have got in their header. They’ve got all these guarantees, they’ve got all their information pages and they’ve just got everything in their header.

You want to have a favicon, this is site wide stuff. You want to have social buttons on every page. You want to have a video FAQ. Some of the most overlooked pages on an eCommerce website are the contact us page and the frequently asked questions page. If you can make those pages really rich with video content, answering peoples questions and all that kind of stuff, you will see a nice little bump in conversion. You want randomly displayed testimonials and bestsellers across your site.

In your footer you want some trust symbols, you want a search box. You definitely need a huge search box in the header. Look at any of the big stores that are out there, you’ll notice that the search box in the header is enormous because people who search for stuff, buy stuff. On one of my sites right now, we’ve got about 5% of people searching and that accounts for 20% of our revenue. We noticed this when it was 2% of the people searching were accounting for 10% of our revenue. We thought we ought to make the search box more prominent! We did that, we bumped the number of searches up to 5% and that now accounts for a fifth of the revenue. So search is huge on eCommerce websites.

You want incentivized time constraints. What that means is that people go through your store, and let’s say they hit the third page or they’ve been on the site for two minutes (or whatever you set that at) then a little thing pops up that says “Hey, if you checkout within the next ten minutes we’ll give you 10% off”. So you do this time constraint and you incentivize it with a discount, and it just crushes for conversion. You also want a daily deal bar. You can get both of those things from a company called exclusiveconcepts.com, they are a great conversion optimization company.

You definitely want live chat. There’s no reason to not have live chat, it’s so effective, even if it’s just “leave us a message and we’ll get back to you”

Some of the home page things you want are; a main image. You probably don’t want a rotator. Some people have these rotating images on their home page and those things don’t actually work for conversion it turns out. You want tabbed featured products based on the categories of your store, so right under your main image you’ve got your featured products and you’ve got featured products for each category.

The way that you set this up is, you go to your Google analytics and you look at your in-page analytics to show you what most people are clicking on. You take your most popular categories, you put them up on your home page and you put the featured products on there. You continue to look at what is getting the most clicks and you continue to change that.

Rich home pages win. Home pages with images, videos and testimonials. A “hello from the owner” and frequently asked questions. The richer your eCommerce website is, the higher it’s going to convert.

We could get into conversion for each individual home page but that’s a super long list. There’s so many cool things you can do for conversion but the super cool thing about eCommerce is that for the most part you’re going to convert pretty well anyway because the people who are coming to your store are already looking for your products. As longs as you’ve got these main elements, these main site wide elements, you don’t really have to go crazy on all your other individual pages.

Joey Bushnell: Awesome, that’s brilliant man. There’s absolutely loads that you gave us there which is absolutely fantastic, I’m blown away by that. Thank you very much Ezra.

Do you have any tips for when people come to pay and they’re in the checkout, do you have any ways to perhaps increase the order value or stop people from abandoning? Any tips in that area?

Ezra Firestone: Yeah, there’s so many plug-ins for every cart now that do abandon cart emails. What that means is someone comes to your store and they start filling out the checkout list but they don’t buy, what some of these plug-ins will do is they’ll scrape info.

One of these plug-ins in particular for Yahoo stores will scrape the value of the cart, the image of the product in the cart and their email address, then it will email them and say “Hey, I saw that you were trying to buy our product (show them an image of the product) and we’d like to give you a discount so that you can continue on with your order. Sorry that our shopping cart process was confusing” and it will give them a discount based on the value of their cart. You’ve also got other ones which will just send them an email but abandoned cart emails will give you a nice little boost because people who bailed out will get a coupon and come back to buy from you.

I’m finding that a two step checkout works best. When someone clicks “add to cart”, it takes them to page that says you can either continue shopping or you can continue to the checkout.  If they press “proceed to checkout” on that next page they’ve got to be able to do everything, fill out their shipping, fill out their billing, fill out their credit card and submit the order. There are no more steps. Add to cart takes them to a page where they can see what’s in their cart, where they can continue to the checkout. Once they continue to the checkout they can finish everything on that same page.

The other cool thing you can do on your checkout page is have a left navigation on your checkout page that is only images. It’s got a images of the people you ship with UPS, Fedex, US Mail, it’s got those logos. It’s got credit card symbols and trust symbols. It’s got a testimonial. It’s got your phone number. It’s got contact us links. A cool little trick is you put a guarantee that is nowhere else on your site, on the left navigation of your checkout page. So nowhere else on the site, anywhere, is this feature or guarantee displayed other than on the checkout itself.

So maybe it’s like “We have a 100% uniqueness guarantee, all of our products are 100% unique, you will not find them in a local store” or whatever it might be or whatever you can offer. Or put your money back guarantee there. Whatever that thing is, make sure they don’t see it anywhere else and that will give you a nice little boost.

The key is to just make it simple. A lot of people don’t have congruency across their shopping cart. You press “add to cart” and it takes you to this page that looks so much different than the rest of the website, that’s just a terrible idea. You want to have it congruent, you want to have it just like the page that you just came from, so design your carts to look exactly like the rest of the website. You want congruency across your checkout sequence.

Joey Bushnell: Fantastic. Ezra thank you so much for this interview, it’s been really cool. First time I saw you was a couple of weeks back at the traffic and conversion summit over in San Francisco, you gave so much value there that I knew I had to get in touch with you and for you to share this information with my readers. So I’m very thankful.

Where can people go to find out more? If they are looking to get into eCommerce do you have anything else people can see over at your website or do you have any products around this topic?

Ezra Firestone: You can head over to my website smartmarketer.com; I’ll be releasing a bunch of free videos over there on my blog about what I’m up to, some case studies of things I’m doing in my business. If you want to learn about eCommerce I’ve got a course coming out at the end of March 2013 which is kind of a soup to nuts eCommerce course. It talks about everything from how to find a market, to how to get in touch with suppliers, it gives you templates, how to build out your platform, how to get traffic, how to get people to come back to your eCommerce website, how to build a community, all that different stuff. It will be out at the end of March.

I’ve also got a mastermind which is truly for any marketer, a lot of eCommerce folks join it but it’s for marketers of all types. That’s where you can work more in depth and privately with me to grow your business. There’s a link on my site where you can get on the waiting list for that, when we open up I’ll email you.

Basically I don’t have a lot of stuff for sale right now, I’m just out there sharing what I’m up to. I do intend to create products. I do consulting. I do done for you stuff for people. I do reputation management, some SEO stuff and some facebook campaigns. So if you are interested in that you can just shoot me over an email, I tend to get those clients through referrals. If it’s a good fit, if it’s a big enough campaign then we’ll work together, if not I can refer you to other people. But really I’m just out there to share what I’m up to and hopefully you enjoy the videos that I put out on my blog and the information. Hopefully what I’m up to and what I’m doing can help you to grow your business.

Joey Bushnell: Thank you so much Ezra.

Ezra Firestone: Thanks Joey I appreciated it and thanks everyone for listening I appreciate your time.

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